In the most recent weeks, my pal Jenny has become my source of "views from the fairer sex". Ol' Jenny is extremely opinionated and has a set viewpoint on everything. Especially when it comes to dating.
I'm kind of a masochist in this way. I can't help but ask her to elaborate on her views on dating, even though I know that 9/10 times it will result in me ripping out my hair.
I walk away from these conversations shutting my eyes tight, gritting my teeth, and praying that this sample doesn't represent the mentality of all women everywhere.
Let me give you an example.
Jenny: See if Leo's brother can hook me up with some Jimmyjane goodies! Explain that I'm a sexually frustrated female friend who hasn't had a real date in over six months and has only gotten recently laid on her 25th tequila-induced birthday which she doesn't really remember. That sob story is worth a free goodie bag in my book!
So@24: I know I'm going to regret asking this, but you haven't been on a "real date"? You went out with that Greg guy recently. What constitutes a "real date"?
Jenny: 1. A REAL date is when a guy asks you out (or in YOUR book, I guess a girl can do it.)
Jenny: 2. It's planned at least a day or two in advance.
Jenny: 3. It's just the two of you.
Jenny: 4. And the "asker-outer" pays.
So@24: Let me get this straight. So hypothetically speaking, if I were you ask you out on a date the morning of the day I want to take you to dinner, you would not consider that a date?
Jenny: Hmmmm... borderline, but acceptable.
So@24: -slaps own face-
What is up with these rules? Why does everything have to have strict guidelines to be considered a date?
A guy HAS to ask the girl?? To any girl who stands behind this, give me a call when you're ready to hang up your corset and hop off the buggy. It's 2008.
I'll agree with the "asker-outer" paying. Fine, that's reasonable and logical. But that means that the asker outer can either be the male or the female.
With these rules, we (being the guys) are so busy trying to figure out these little nuances that it's usually too late. I mourn for the thought that the next girl will have a slightly different, yet equally lengthy set of random requirements.
What do you think, boys & girls? Is this a universal train of thought? Why are these rules set in place at all?
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82 comments:
My favorite in high school was the Sadie Hawkins dance.
Easiest. Thing. Ever.
When is a date a Date? Good question. GOOD. QUESTION. I need to blog about this.
By the way, congrats on being the 20SB Featured Blogger. Does it make you want to slap your own face?
I think the girls you know are just too high maintenance. But... since you seem to seek that out, you really can't complain about it.
I hate that there are such rules for everything. It makes everything so much more difficult and makes it impossible to just 'go with it'.
Which is often the best way to approach such things.
I think the guy has to ask the girl out and pay. Also the meal / wine has to cost over $40.
And I wish I had met girls that talked like that when I was single - felt like I had to use the jaws of life to get past first base. I'll stop now.
The only reason I don't like the idea of asking a guy out is because I'm so insecure, the entire time I'm with him, I'll be thinking, "the only reason he's here is because I asked him. I wasn't memorable enough for him to ask me."
Or something like that.
these are by and large antiquated but still understood as the "rules" because of gender role perpetuation (what a mouthful).
personally, though, i think the people more worth dating are those that throw out the rules and can think for themselves.
I'm probably not the best person to comment on this, considering I wasn't even sure my first few dates with The Boy were, in fact, actual dates, but I agree with you about the "several days in advance" thing being BS. Girls can totally ask guys out, and while it's common courtesy for the asker-outer to the be the one to pay, I think it's perfectly acceptable for both people to pitch in. Like, one person buys the movie tickets and the other springs for snacks. The asker-outer shouldn't EXPECT the other person to help out, but I think it's cool if they do.
...or maybe that's just me.
I think "rules" like that are completely silly! I totally agree that mentalities like that complicate dating.
Rules I follow?
I consider spending time with someone a "date" if it is formally established that you are spending one on one time with someone, and it is an "out of the norm" get together. For instance, say your best friend is a guy, and you make plans to hang out with him...it's not a date just because you are alone. However, if it is established that there is a romantic motivation surrounding this get together, then yes, it is a date. YeeGawds I am making my stomach churn thinking about this! (and I wonder why I'm SINGLE!)
As for the money situaion...Pay for yourself. It's nice if someone offers to pay..but always go on a "date" with the assumption you are taking care of yourself. Money twists people's personas into doing irrational things...it's best left to keep things rational at least for the first couple of "dates" :)
I think I've shared enough Assvice for one day :)
Okay! So now I am very confused too. I just read some of that dumb book, "He's Just Not That Into You" and that guy assured me, bet his 2 kidneys, and first born that girls should not ask guys out on a date because guys don't like it. So are you telling me guys do want girls to ask them out on dates. I think the whole male/female thing is sooooooo confusing. Can you help a sista out!
Fuck that noise.
Don't have to be a "real date" to end in boning!
Silly rules like that, is just like coloring inside the lines... NO FUN!!!
Be You.. Do You!
I don't know, it's still nice to be asked out. Sure, old fashion, but old fashion is good sometimes. It's true we can ask a guy out, but really, we're insecure. You guys should be gutsy, right? Then make the first move!
That's my idea at least.
Okay, at first I thought that sounded pretty dumb. But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense to me. It FEELS less like a date if you're just hanging with someone and decide to go grab dinner and a movie than if you'd planned it days in advance. Still, though, it's a date.
Dating should be a go with the flow sort of thing. But I know there are people who have several rules out there. The whole "I don't kiss on the first date" is a rule that I have heard some girls use. But I really feel like it's in the moment. Maybe there's something there, or maybe you want to play hard to get, or you just don't want to. But too many rules can complicate things.
I tend to ask guys out and vice versa. But I don't usually end up paying. The only reason being, I am a poor graduate from school working in non-profit. So when I go out, the guys usually pay for things.
Well, I don't think it HAS to be a "real" date to be significant, but I think your friend was just complaining that she hasn't had a guy call her up, ask her out, and treat her like a lady in a while.
Dates are a shady area. Sometimes you don't even know you've gone on a date until a couple of months afterwards, when these "outings" have accumulated and you realize in retrospect that you were not just "hanging out with" but, in fact, "dating" someone. But who calls them "dates" anymore, anyway? Probably the same people who don't kiss on the first date. Losers.
i sort of made the first move on my bf, that's got to count for something right?
I don't abide by those rules. It has to be just two people, though, for a "real" date. Double dates are not "real" dates. And a "real" date can't be otherwise considered "just hanging out."
Man, I could go off on this for eons but I'll keep it short.
I am so sick of the games to be had when you're single. To me, if you want to call someone twenty minutes or two days after the fact, fine. There should be no timeline. Life is what happens when you're trying to make plans. Not everyone is so bored as to calculate the hours till it's a safe time to call.
As for what constitues a date, I'd say, there is no such parameter in existence for the simple fact that every person, and in turn every couple, is different. I dated a guy who only wanted to go out to eat for dates. Another only considered it a date if it went down in a bar. And yet another only wanted to ride the couch watching movies. None of these were more or less of a date than the others.
There needs to be an uprising of single people. You guys all need to get together and tell society to take their rules and shove it.
Here is what I learned after many years of playing the circuit: it should be easy...if it's not, it isn't meant to be so save yourself the drama.
If you're meant to be with someone, it will be easy. The phone calls and plans will flow without much thought. Truly. That doesn't mean there won't be butterflies or nervousness, it just means you won't be wasting your prescious time analyzing.
I knew my husband was "The One" when I could safely gauge what his response to something would be without having to interrogate him or bore my girlfriends to death. Granted, I married the simplest of all men: cars, sex and beer make him happy, but that's not to say he is predictable.
When my grandpa and I used to get lunch he called it a date...How does that fit into the rules?
Personally I never minded asking guys out but I've found that many were put off by that, perceiving me as being too pushy (after only asking once). And as for when to call a date a date, well I'm going to have to disagree with your friend. My boyfriend asked me out on our first date on the same day and I personally had no problem with that whatsoever. Oh and yes we are still together since then (which was a year ago).
No such thing as rules when it comes to dating in my opinion.
seriously though, i kinda agree, for the most part. but i think a date can also be completely spontaneous. i think a date can be a date even if it is decided on an hour in advance. but, i'm still against letting the woman pay. i'm kind of old fashioned like that. and no, i don't expect ass because i pay.
Girlinterrupted, et al,
Please, in the name of all things holy, do not bring up "He's Just Not That Into You". There is little else on this earth, save for parking tickets and glass shampoo bottles, that SO@24 loathes more than that ridiculous piece of pulp passed off as a book.
We don't want to open up that can of worms.
Rules are meant to be broken my friend!
My dear 24,
I have no idea how to link in comments or I would link here. Look at my blog on February 22, 2008. Apparently there are rules, and I don't know what they are either.
Good luck.
i'm not above asking a guy out, but i do enjoy it whent he guy does it.
I say who cares who considers what a date, as long as you're out having a good time with someone you like.
The bottomline, a girl wants to wooed by a guy. Plain and simple.
Ah, she's a traditional kind of girl. I'm the same way, but that's because I'm too chickenshit to ask anyone on a date. I also like the 2-days-in-advance thing. But that's also because I'm very OCD about being notified about any plans at least a week in advance.
All in all, I guess it all depends on the person. I think a real date doesn't take place in a McDonalds (I've had this done before.)
"We should go do that!"
Is THAT a date, I ask you?
"Let's go to happy hour!"
And it's just the two of us invited?
Girls make up rules so we don't have to think we're on a date if we don't want to feel the pressure of thinking. In my case, happy hour today was not a date, although it was planned 24 hours in advance. Because I didn't want it to be - since I am in no way ready to date yet, but it is nice to hang out with the new cute boy from the office. My rules.
i don't know about such specific rules but its always better to show that you've given it some thought before a date rather than the "yo whats up lets eat" text
So if you ask me, the #1 outstanding criterion is that it has to be planned in advance. How far in advance is subject to debate but I saw 24 hours minimum.
dude, calm. down.
i can feel the frustration oozing out of your words...
not every girl is like that. many have much more strict rules and others are a bit looser. don't let one opinion determine the rest of the bunch....
oh and what is this jimmyjane business??? how do i get hooked up???
soph
This is pointless. All women want rules and such. All men want to do is play video games.
A video dating game my friend?
Yes and Yes.
Oh and you got pwned by the maiden metallurgist.
Pwned.
I just wanted to say that.
just be honest. ask a girl out if you want to. don't ask a girl out. whatever it is, just be honest. i dislike rules. how can you be yourself with a girl if you're following someone else's rules? do what feel right for you(don't let that wild imagination of yours runaway with that statement);).
i am a bit old-fashioned, i like the guy to pay for the meal, open doors for me, drive (you know guys are bad back seat driver to women). there is such thing as common courtesy. just have fun. if a girl asks you out, then score one for you.
Don't ask me. The last time I was out on a single's date, she WAS wearing a corset...
I think some people think wayy too much into the whole dating thing. I am a big fan of just going with the flow and not over analysing things. If you want to go out for a drink with someone, then do it. If you want to pay for yourself, then do it. Thinking about rules too much wrecks the fun of dating I think.
The only one I'm going to comment back to is Maiden.
I thought you knew me. Apparently you haven't read close enough. Which is fine. I tend to babble.
RS... damn, pwnage. Pure pwnage.
You'll get away with breaking the rules as long as the girl really likes you or she's the type who hates those typical gender roles. But they just sound like nice little courtesies that show that you care enough about the date to organise it beforehand, put in a little thought, and that you're very polite. Chivalry is not dead and will not be for as long as it makes girls swoon, feminisim and gender equality or not.
But you're right, if the girl asks the guy out then she should definitely pay, or at the very least offer to.
EXCEPT:
Rachel said...
The only reason I don't like the idea of asking a guy out is because I'm so insecure, the entire time I'm with him, I'll be thinking, "the only reason he's here is because I asked him. I wasn't memorable enough for him to ask me."
Or something like that.
Bingo.
well that's why everyone should just skip the date and obligatory stuff, cut to the chase and go straight home.
kidding.
but in the above case, that's really not a date. that's "chilling".
(i hate the rules of dating)
I think if you get butterflies in your belly it's a real date.
I don't "do" dating rules. It's silly. And confusing, since they change a lot, sometimes mid-date. Just relax and have fun, that's my rule.
Um, agree with it being just the 2 of you and the asker-outer pays, but I'm old enough that if I want a guy, I'm going for it. Fuck the guy-has-to-ask rule.
ooooo this is a tough one, but is there really a right or wrong answer?!?
ill let you know when i get asked out on a date. i.e. NEVER.
Oh honey I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was aiming for flippant and clearly missed the mark. I'm sorry to have offended you.
Personally, I don't think it's about rules. I think it's about going out with someone who truly likes and respects me. If you ask me out at the very last minute, aren't you sort of implying that you think I have nothing better to do? I think it's about respect-- giving someone notice, assuming they have a life. I'm definitely not saying that I would never go out with someone who asked me at the last minute, but I might wonder why they're assuming I'm free.
As far who asks who out, I don't see anything wrong with the woman doing it. But I agree that she should probably offer to pay if she does.
p.s. I think I take back what I said about the "asker-outer" always paying-- when my friends invite me out, I don't expect them to pay for me. I think it's a nice thing to offer (especially if you invited the person someplace expensive), but it shouldn't be required.
Rules? What rules??
We don't need no stinkin' rules! ;)
Relax, love, this is supposed to be FUN...
p.s. Not to "open a can of worms" but I wonder what SO@24's beef with "He's Just Not That Into You" is? That's a totally different book from "The Rules" (which is, um, psychotic). The message of "He's Just Not That Into You" is: get a life and stop obsessing, don't date guys who beat you, don't date guys who are married, don't date guys who are assholes, don't date guys who repeatedly demonstrate that they don't like you as much as you like them. What's wrong with that advice?
It DOES suck that there are rules but I feel like they're kinda "passed down" from generation to generation or something. (Or at least older sister/cousin to younger sister/cousin, etc.) When it comes to things like the guy being the "asker-outer" and paying (even after the woman does "the reach") women see it as a sign of respect. I've been told many times that if a guy (any guy, shy or bold) REALLY is interested in a woman he will ask her out no matter how embarrassing the outcome may be. So why would I ask a guy out that wasn't asking me out in the first place? I don't want to go out with someone who isn't REALLY interested in me, whether the interest is of a sexual nature or something more. I also think the time period between the ask and the date shows respect. Thinking about my upcoming weekend, if some guy asked me on a date today, he'd have to wait a few days because I'm a busy girl and I need some notice! Time to think about an outfit and get the nails done and all that (I know, it's pathetic, but true.) I don't really want to be going out with a guy who has no life outside of dating me and would be free TONIGHT anyway. That makes me think he's either a loser or he had plans that got cancelled so I'm second best.
I think women just judge a lot by the first couple of dates to decide if they want to keep seeing the guy. It's how we figure out if he's a nice and respectful enough person to bother with. Respect is a big thing for women, take it from Aretha.
I think the important thing is to just keep in mind the whole respect thing and also try to make a woman you're interested in feel special (because she's worth it, right?) and then the rules won't even matter because you're just being a decent guy and she'll be able to tell you're a good person right away.
I'm sorry, guys need to sack up and do the asking the first time. Because if a girl does the asking first, she sets up a precedent that the guy has no balls, and women like balls. I do, at least.
Sorry leo and SO, "HJNTIY" is the bible as far as I'm concerned. Maybe if you didn't hate it and started reading it, you wouldn't have as many confusions about your own gender?
Oh man, nice dates are hard to come by.
And you can go have a meal with someone but have it not be a "date" because "dates" are special. At least they feel more special.
I don't give a crap if a friend and I are going to the diner to eat a burger. But I get all giddy and stupid about getting mildly dressed up to go out somewhere with someone who really wants to take me out.
'Tini, let me propose another view.
When a girl asks a guy out, she does not set the precedent that the guy has no balls. Indeed the only precedent set is that the SHE has the fortitude to sack up and go after what she wants. You know what that is? Hot.
As many female readers have stated (and thank you ladies, it warms my heart to hear this) - to hell with rules and conventions. If I meet a girl who knocks me off my feet, you can bet your rosy red Georgia peach-pickin' ass I'm going to pursue her. It would appear that most girls on here (while they appreciate being asked out, who doesn't), would do the same with a man. Unfortunately (and maybe this is an LA thing) so many women I meet here are high-maintenance--they carry a sense of entitlement about what a guy should do for them. I can understand the desire for chivalry, but what I'm describing is Princess-ism.
You and I have met. You're a cute girl. I don't think I'd be wildly off base if I said that you get a fair amount of male attention on the regular--something your blog corroborates. In regards to that, I'll offer this--the guys who readily approach women, attractive women, guys who on a night out will sidle up to you at the bar and buy you a drink--are probably only looking to get to know you in the biblical sense. Most likely they've scanned the bar, spotted you and a few others, and are going to try their luck from top to bottom. Trust me. He may have "balls", but he's not a man.
Matter of fact there was a study done recently that describes why men who are aggressive in this way tend to a) have more sexual partners and b) tend to be narcissistic, and more interested in short-term encounters. http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg19826614.100-bad-guys-get-the-most-girls.html
Also, HJNTIY was written by a stand-up comedian and an actress. Not exactly credentials I'd trust. In my opinion, it was a success because it answered the myriad "what-if" questions girls have about boys with concrete black and white answers. There are no black and white answers though. It's like Cosmo telling you what guys like. My friends and I see those in the check out isle, flip through them and shake our heads.
Sorry, the link, in abbreviated form.
http://tiny.cc/0O450
Leo,
I can't speak for Martini, but I know that when I say I want a man who's interested enough to approach me, I'm not talking about a guy in a bar who is only interested in me based on my appearance. It may be unfair of me, but I tend to distrust guys who are cocky enough to approach me randomly in a bar.
I'm talking about coworkers, classmates, friends of friends-- a guy who has gotten to know me as a person. If that guy has gotten to know me as a person and still hasn't asked me out, then chances are good that he isn't all that interested in me.
Because I'm ballsy, I'll still flirt and invite him out on a non-date with friends, but if he doesn't take the intiative to ask me out, he isn't that interested. And why would I want to ask out a guy who isn't that interested? Seems like a major waste of time for everyone involved.
I don't really want to take sides here but I become disheartened when I hear comments from women like that one. This is just an example of women contributing to their own oppression and then fighting against it when it's convenient for them. As granddaughters of the feminist movement (sorry to say the f word) we have a responsibility to not follow the rules of the gender.
I have read HJNTIY. Some of it makes sense but most of it was a joke. It was laugh-out-loud funny and offensive to males and females alike.
I have no qualms asking a guy out. Who really cares?
Overcoat,
It's not unfair of you to distrust guys who approach you on an evening out. You're totally right, you shouldn't, they're probably skeezy.
In regards to admitting you'd flirt with a guy you're interested in and invite him on a non-date with friends. There's a problem there--if the guy likes you, he'll probably be insecure about the way you perceive him. If you invite him out on a platonic non-date with friends, what does that say--Green light, gung-ho, ask her out little buddy? No, it says Friendville. Instead, why not skip the games and just ask him out? It might be scary, but then you know how we feel.
I guess all I'm saying is that it's an attractive trait in both sexes to have the gumption to go after what you want.
And Blinds, you're fantastic.
Call me old fashioned, but I would never ask a guy out. Not in a million years. Not only because I fear rejection (who doesn't?), but because I feel the "asker-outer" is a very gender specific role. Sure, women want to be treated as equals and we want to feel empowered and all that, but we also like a guy who will take care of us. Who we know will have the courage to do anything for us. This includes and is not limited to, sacking up and asking us out.
Here is my take: I think the "rules" are there so that the "asked-out" feels respected by the "asker-outer". I don't think it matters if you use modern or archaic formalities (or any formalities at all) as long as you aren't making the object of your affection feel like a last-minute afterthought.
to me, a date is a situation where two people go somewhere or do something together that one of the asked the other to do in advance.
so, me asking my male friend to walk me to the store because it's dark out isn't a date, but me calling a male friend over to watch a movie later on is.
i believe the difference between a date and just hanging out is the time that elapses between the asking and the doing. i'd say anything over 15 minutes in the future could be seen as a date (15 mins is the time you need to primp for a date).
Those rules are dumb, except for the one about it having to be the two of you. Case in point: a friend recently referred to a guy as someone I'm dating, when in fact we just hang out in a group and occasionally hook up afterward. I had to correct her and explain that that situation does NOT constitute a date.
"To any girl who stands behind this, give me a call when you're ready to hang up your corset and hop off the buggy. It's 2008."
um hilarious.
asker pays, period
I guess I'm an old-fashioned gal in the sense that I would very much prefer to be asked out. I honestly prefer to be the pursued, not the pursuer.
That being said, if there was a guy I was very much into, I would probably ask him out.
And Leo, as for the 'platonic non-date' - I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd like to get to know the guy a little before putting myself out there. I feel that it's always easier to get to know a guy without immediate romantic pressure.
Anyway, SO - great post. Seems to have got a lot of people thinking.
what do you say to a girl with two black eyes who's asking you out?
nothing, you've already told her "yes" twice.
I agree, but I don't care how far in advance it's planned. If someone asks me out and it's 1 on 1 and they pay that's a date. They could have met me on the street 10 minutes earlier and i'd be satisfied.
Now it's not that I'm opposed to paying, but I feel like on the first date the person who asks the other person out should pay.
Sorry. I'm the same way - I like being asked out and paid for, for the first date. Then after that, it's dutch or I return the favour
Sorry. I'm the same way - I like being asked out and paid for, for the first date. Then after that, it's dutch or I return the favour
I think it's all about the situation. If I see someone and we're talking and we click and we are going to leave, I usually will say something or ask if they want to hang out again. I usually like to pay half and half. Not split down the middle but okay you got the dinner? I'm getting the movie tickets. I find most guys comfortable with that but never to be entirely treated. I don't think there is a rule. I think you should just go with what feels comfortable. A traditional 'date' is where one person asks the other to have a dinner or move or event at a set time. I think when a guy is like come over today and you fuck and go home is a booty call, i dont care what time or you are 'kickin' it to him as a high school friend would say. either way, pay if you want, or don''t. No one should ever go out with a date with no money. That is ridiculous!!!! At least offer to pay! MY israeli friends always pay, date or not, and i am used to it but sometimes i can sneak and pay first which i like. Fact is, people like to be treated and men deserve to be treated too. Just not everytime or the destiny's child song 'bills' will start playing. same thing ladies, no one needs to be a gold digger. As for asking out, any one should when they feel it. If you are too insecure to ask anyone else, only you are taking yourself out of the game and people are attracted to confidence.
I call it, "Adult Dating"....since there are different expectations. I guess it can work, though I have my doubts.
There are rules that women are making up right this second. RIGHT.THIS.SECOND.
The Girl Mafia may kill me now, so if you don't hear from me...I may be dead. Or getting laid. Hopefully the latter....as the former than latter is even a little too freaky for me. And I'd be dead.
I guess this means I went on a date a few weeks ago. Woo hoo! Good to know.
There are rules because guys love the grey area. The area where they don't put in a lot of effort and see how much they can get laid out of it. To weed out these lazy guys who don't like us enough, there are effort meters. I say planning a date a few days in advance and paying definitely are good meters to see how interested a guy is in a girl.
Fair enough RedHead, but it goes both ways. I tell any woman up front that she needs to put in effort, or I'm not going to bother...as there are enough options out there. Weeding out is needed on both sides, because there are way too many flaky people out there.
Ah, I've asked myself the same question. What I came up with is, those kind of dates, the planned in advance, asker pays, whatever...those are old people dates. Not my style.
everytime i deign to ask a guy out...aka the one or two times i've mentioned it offhand...i've never considered a date. it's more...feeling it out, seeing what his response is like...but never just two of us, never do i treat it like a date.
i have to say i'm old fashioned, like jenny. i would much rather be the askee!
I wouldn't say it's a rule, but I would for one never ask out a guy. It's just not my thing. I like the traditional roles. As far as needing x days notice, that's a bit much. Sometimes half of the fun is just being spontaneous on a date when first getting to know someone.
Auburn Cat and Redhead beat me to the punch (as usual... Also, what's up with the ginger girls being so on point?), but really, the woo is an integral component of the real date. Whether it be planning far enough in advance so there's time to look forward to it, the gentleman paying, or planning an activity more involved than drinks at the local bar, there needs to be a modicum of effort put forth. I'm totally cool with asking a guy out for drinks knowing that going/ bringing him home is a sure thing, but it definitely doesn't qualify as a real date.
Re: He's Just Not That Into You: there's something inherently wrong with needing books to tell you who you like and who likes you.
not universal at all... there are things that can make or break a real date... but when they ask really has little to do with it... and i dont think the guy has to ask either... its 2008... go for what you want!
I love your friend already! But don't worry, not all girls are like that. I, for one, am not. x)
WTF? this was really confusing.
sorry, but i am in no way allowed to give dating advice. i'll fuck you up. lol.
Yeah where the hell do these rules come from and why arent they written in a book.
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